I will be offering some rules issues for discussion by the Rio Cowboys from time to time. I will pose several questions for you to consider the answers and then see how your answers compare with the latest rulings by the Wild Bunch, SASS RO committee or other sources.
July: You Make the Call
1. Shooter is supposed to be shooting his pistol and instead he picks up his shotgun and starts to load it. TO tells him he to shoot his pistol instead. Shooter places shotgun on prop along with his shotgun shells. After shooter shoots his pistol, can he pick up his shells and shotgun and shoot it?
2. Same scenario, except shooter lays down shotgun on table and drops shotgun shells on table. Can shooter pick up his shotgun shells off the prop and shoot them?
3. Shooter has shot his last round on the stage and during the stage shooter dropped some shotgun rounds on a prop. Can shooter retrieve his shotgun rounds before he goes to the unloading table? Second question, shooter has completed his shooting as before and has dropped some shotgun shells on the ground, can shooter pick them up on the way to the unloading table?
4. Shooter completes shooting his 97 and lays it down on a prop. While shooting his rifle a piece of rifle ejected brass ends up in his shotgun. Shooter then shoots his pistols without removing the brass from his shotgun. Is the shooter penalized?
5. Stage instructions say that shooter is to say a line in the middle of a stage between his rifle and 2nd pistol. Shooter totally forgets to say the line. Penalty if any?
6. Is a Roper shotgun a legal shotgun for a major SASS match provided shooter either single loads or loads only two rounds at a time? Here is a photo: Roper Shotgun
7. Black powder shooter is shooting a pair of open tops shooting in duelist category. One gun is causing the shooter fits. Can shooter use off hand to help cylinder rotate or help cock hammer when gun will not cycle properly due to black powder fouling?
8. Shooter is shooting cap and ball revolver. Stage calls for a one shot reload. How is this handled by the cap and ball shooter?
9. Shooter is shooting cap and ball revolver. Stage calls for a single shot reload to hit a tiny target-say a dynamite stick. Instructions say shooter has to keep reloading until target is hit. How does cap and ball shooter handle the situation if he misses the first shot? Can he use the 2nd pistol in any way?
10. Shooter is shooting his cap and ball revolver and a cap fails to fire on 2nd shot. Can the shooter continue shooting the rest of his rounds in his revolver or must he hand off his revolver and continue with other guns? How does the TO know if the shooter is using a cartridge conversion or a real cap and ball cylinder?
June: You Make the Call
1. Shooter is supposed to shoot his rifle first, but instead pulls his first pistol and cocks it and then stops. Can the shooter safely decock the pistol and get a restart, since no round has gone down range?
The shooter cannot decock his pistol in this scenario. He must fire the pistol downrange.
2. Alternative, same situation as with #1., with rifle being first but shooter instead pulls his pistol by mistake, cocks it, fires it and has a squib. Can shooter get a restart?
The shooter is a very lucky person, in this scenario the shooter gets a reshoot since no round has exited the barrel.
3. Shooter is shooting a pistol string and while doing so, one round does not fire. Shooter proceeds to go around the cylinder and refires the round but it still does not go down range. Shooter then loads a round from his person into the empty chamber and fires and hits the last target in the proper sequence. Is this legal?
Yes this is legal. Shooter needs to make sure the hammer is down on a fired round when complete and if he does nothing after firing the just loaded round he hammer/cylinder should be in the correct position.
4. Is it legal to move with a loaded pistol pointed safely downrange?
As long as the shooter keeps the gun pointed downrange and does not cock the pistol until his feet are planted at the new location, he can move with the pistol.
5. Shooter is using a 97 shotgun, he has to shoot 2 knockdowns then move to shoot 2 more knockdowns. Shooter shoots both initial knockdowns, then leaves empty hull in chamber with action closed and as he moves to the second pair of knockdowns, he loads the magazine with two rounds. Arriving at his 2nd location, shooter then only has to rack the 97 to load the first round. Is his legal?
This is legal effective at the beginning of this year.
6. A male shooter is 66 years old, shooting adjustable sight revolvers, how many different categories might he choose to enter shooting smokeless powder?
I count 9 categories: B Western, Gunfighter, Duelist, Senior Duelist, Cowboy, Wrangler, 49er, Senior, and Silver Senior. If shooter had fixed sighted revolvers, you could add Classic Cowboy if in the right caliber.
7. Can a shooter use a 22 Magnum caliber derringer for derringer side matches?
No a 22 Mag caliber derringer cannot be used in a derringer side match. It is interesting that 22 caliber is allowed but not magnum caliber in 22.
8. Can a shooter legally use a grip enhancing sole on his boots in most SASS categories?
Yes, the only categories that that would not allow grip enhancing footwear is Classic Cowboy and B Western categories. When the weather is bad, many clubs would allow even the Classic Cowboy and B Western entrants to wear safe footwear.
9. Can ladies enter any shooting category even when no lady unique category is offered?
Yes, categories such as Cowboy, Wrangler, Senior, Classic Cowboy, B Western, Duelist, Gunfigher, etc. are open to ladies if no similar lady unique category is offered by a club. All these categories are not limited to men only.
10. Does a spotter have to see or hear a hit?
Spotter should be looking for misses.
If spotter does not see or hear a hit and does not also see a miss, it is a hit.
April/May You Make The Call
The following photos are of the "Vana" model used to demonstrate on how not to dress or equip for a SASS match. The model was used for the just completed RO II class at Rio. Without making nasty comments about the poor hapless shooter, identify everything you can about what is wrong with what the shooter is wearing and what is wrong with the equipment the shooter has chosen to use (i.e. guns, leather, etc.). Be careful some of what he is wearing might look illegal at first sight but is legal. See if you would have passed the class. In June Golf Canyon Kid will attempt to identify everything that was wrong and right.
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Here is what I found wrong with the photo posted based on our RO II class:
Baseball SASS hat not legal
Short sleeve shirt not legal
Winter Range logos on clothing not legal-see shirt
No shooting glasses (ear plugs optional)
Cross draw holster over 30 degrees
One revolver is not a single action but is a double action revolver
Both holsters on same side of shooter
No two fist widths between holsters/guns
Shotgun slide over shotgun loops
Shotgun belt not at belly button or just above holster belt
Note: revolver/rifle slides are legal on shotgun belt.
Note: Vaquero (large size) grip frame on Single Six 32 H&R legal as a few were made this way by Ruger
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March/April You Make the Call
Since there was no March "You Make the Call" questions, this month they will be called March/April You Make the Call items. This month we will do it a bit different and talk about the actual matches at Rio instead of SASS rules:
1. When are matches held at Rio each month? What time is signup and when does shooting start?
Matches at Rio are held on the first Saturday of every month. Sign up before the main match starts at 8:00 AM, with a shooters meeting at 9:00 AM and shooting to start immediately thereafter.
2. When and where are long range matches held at Rio each month?
Before the main monthly match, there is a long range competition for pistol, lever action rifle-pistol and rifle calibers and single shot rifle starting at 7:00 AM
3. How do I get on a posse for a shoot each month at Rio?
Approximately 20-30 minutes before the shooters meeting or about 8:30 to 8:45, posse sign up sheets are put on the picnic tables. Shooters are requested to not remove the sign up sheets from the plastic holders. New shooters are requested to spread themselves among the various posses if possible to equalize the time each posse takes to shoot a stage.
4. How are Posse Marshalls assigned at Rio?
Posse Marshalls are selected by the posse at Rio. The Posse Marshall should be an individual that has at least RO I training and hopefully RO II training. The Posse Marshal need not run the timer (but should be qualified) but insures that qualified folks are assigned as spotters and range officer/timer operator and score keeper. One main chore for the Posse Marshall is to keep the posse running on time and handle issues that come up in the course of the match.
5. How and when are time sheets from the posses turned in to the computer operator each month?
The posse should turn in it’s score sheets in to the stat house (office area) at the end of shooting at each pistol bay is completed, normally that will at the completion of two stages but sometimes just a single stage. The score keeper will need to copy the names onto each sheet in exactly the same order for all shooters from sheet to sheet and include the shooters number for each shooter.
6. Are spotter identification (TNT sticks), time keeping clipboard and timers taken to each new bay after shooting or left
in the bay just completed?
All equipment should be carried with the posse from stage to stage including the score sheets, clipboard, timer, spotting sticks, pen, etc.
7. Where do I sign up for the match at Rio and what will it cost?
Long range events cost $3 for each event and are paid before shooting each long range event at the long range area, just East of the pistol bays (high power range).
The main match costs have just been recently increased and are now $12 for members of the Rio Salado Cowboys Action Shooting Society club. The cost for non members is $15. These costs cover all match costs including new targets, awards, office supplies, plus payment to the Rio Salado Sportsman’s Club for each shooter.
8. If there is a question about how a stage is to be shot, who is the final authority?
The final authority on how a stage is to be shot rests with the Match Director/Range Master. The chain of command should be through the Posse Marshall to the Match Director/Range Master. Many times the Match Director/Range Master may seek guidance from whomever wrote the stages if different from the Match Director/Range Master.
9. When are awards handed out at a Rio match?
Awards are handed out at Rio following the match after all targets have been put away by all posses and all data entered in the Club computer. Should a shooter not be able to pick up his award, for a couple of months they are usually placed in envelopes and located near the sign up window for matches.
10. What happens to the steel after a match at Rio is completed? What is each shooter's responsibility?
Each shooter has the responsibility to ensure that the targets, props and tables on his final stage of the day are completely stored before leaving the stage.
11. How and when is the steel set up before a match at Rio? How can I help?
The targets and props are set up Friday afternoons before the Saturday main match that occurs on the first Saturday of each month. We need all the help we can get on Fridays to set up targets and props. The folks gather about 12:30 PM on Fridays. Folks that help to set up targets and props get to shoot on Saturday for free.
12. Will lunches be available at Rio during matches?
Lunches are no longer guaranteed at Rio at the Cowboy shoots. Many times there is a vendor selling lunch at the main public range adjacent to (West of) the pistol bays where the cowboy shoot is held. If you have a medical condition requiring food at a certain time, such as a diabetic, you should probably at least bring snacks if not lunch.
February You Make the Call
Here is a fresh cut at the answers to the Feb You Make the Call:
I want to appologize to you folks that have been patiently waiting for Feb answers to You Make the Call. Sometimes us old farts just get to busy and forget to get things done. With Winter Range, the new shooters sessions, reloading, other shoots, and other obligations, well you get the idea. Here are the Feb answers.
1. Shooter is running through the stage and suddenly his revolver stops working (cylinder will not turn) after firing one round and shooter is not able to fix it easily/quickly. What action should he take?
1. If the shooter has a gun malfunction he should either hand off the gun to the TO/RO or place the gun on a prop. The shooter should never holster a gun that has malfunctioned.
2. Shooter loads 10 rounds in his rifle while the stage calls for 9 rounds. What is the maximum number of penalties the shooter can get with this serious mistake?
2. A shooter can get several penalties for not loading the correct number of rounds in his rifle. If he over loads the rifle, i.e. 10 instead of a required 9 rounds, the shooter gets a 10 second penalty for overloading his rifle by not following loading table procedures. If the shooter leaves the round on the carrier after shooting the rifle, he also gets another 10 second safety for the round on the carrier. If the shooter fires the10th round and hits a target instead he could get a 10 second procedural penalty. If the shooter just ejects the unfired round the shooter can limit his penalties to just the initial 10 second safety for not following loading table procedures.
3. Shooter is instructed that he has 4 shotgun targets to knock down. One of the shotgun targets does not fall. When may the shooter reshoot the target that did not fall, immediately, after he shoots at all four targets, or anytime he wants to shoot the one(s) that did not fall?
3. The shooter can pick up the knockdowns that did not fall in any order he wants unless the stage instructions specifically identify an order that the knockdowns must fall. This is true even when a specific engagement order is given, i.e. outside targets then inside targets (in that case if the first outside target engaged is missed the shooter can re-engage it anytime he wants unless the stage instructions explicitly provides an order they must fall in). Where it gets tricky is when the shotgun targets are located in multiple positions. In this case the shooter usually needs to complete all the knockdowns for a given shooting position.
4. Stage instructions call tables, fences, etc. as shooting positions. How close to the edge of such structures can a shooter at Rio stand without being in the wrong position?
4. At Rio we normally use a standard that at least one foot needs to be behind a prop or one foot inside a fence vertical post unless the stage instructions say something different.
5. Shooter comes to the firing line with his hammer cocked on his rife with an empty chamber. Penalty?
5. This is being watched a lot more lately. Shooter gets a Stage Disqualification for having his hammer cocked on an empty chamber when he arrives at the firing line from the unloading table. Please check this carefully before you load your rifles at the loading table.
6. How do shooters find the latest 2009 SASS rules? How do shooters find unique Rio rules.
6. http://www.sassnet.com/Shooters-Handbook-001A.php or http://www.riosaladocowboys.com/sass_rules.html
The only rules unique to the Rio Salado range are safety rules and can be found on the Rio web site:
http://www.riosaladocowboys.com/saftey.html
There are unique Rules for the Rio Range, for example a round over the berm is a match disqualification.
7. Shooter is at loading table with a cross draw holster and sweeps the shooter in line behind him while drawing his empty pistol (sweeping defined by pointing barrel at the next shooter after his barrel clears the holster). Penalty?
7. Breaking the 170 with an uloaded gun is a stage disqualification. Breaking the 170 with a loaded gun is a match disqualification.
8. Shooter is at loading table and has an accidental discharge while checking for high primers in his revolver. Penalty?
8. An accidental discharge at the loading table would be a match disqualification.
9. Can a shooter ask for a restart if no round has gone downrange after he fumbles his shotgun shells on his first stage of the day? What can the shooter do if RO does not grant a reshoot?
9. A restart is not a reshoot. A restart means no round has gone down range. Shooter gets to ask for a restart for whatever reason. If shooter has bobbles (and no round fired) the RO can actually stop the shooter and help him get restarted. Rules say RO must grant a restart unless the shooter is abusing the rules. If the RO/TO does not allow the restart, I would not shoot and go to the unloading table and then go talk to the Posse Marshall and the Match Director if necessary-I have done it. Every once in a while TO/ROs do not understand the rules.
10. If the RO/TO bumps the shooter while shooting or moving, can the shooter request a reshoot?
10. If the TO/RO bumps the shooter, the shooter can ask for a reshoot-this is interference. I have seen shooters abuse this rule by purposely bumping or running into the RO/TO when they had penalties they would like to get rid of. In this case the TO/RO is not required to grant the reshoot.
11.Shooter shoots stage with an inadequate number of shotshells in his belt so gets misses for targets he was not able to engage. Can shooter claim the RO/TO should have caught his mistake?
11. TO/RO is obligated to start the shooter in the proper location. If the shooter does not stage his guns in the right locations or does not have the required ammo, he'll be sorry! A good RO will usually help the shooter to have the required ammo.
January 2009 Questions & Answers
1) The maximum cant (tilt angle) that can be used on a cross draw holster is how many degrees from vertical? How can it be easily measured?
The maximum tilt angle on a cross draw holster is 30 degrees. This will be monitored more in 2009 than previously so cross draw holster wearers beware. Unfortunately there is no standard for measurement, but if your barrel tilts more than 30 degrees from vertical when you stand straight up, you may get called. If you are unsure, have someone measure it. How you holster fits your holster belt is not the issue but the absolute measurement is what counts. If your holster can vary the angle on your belt (i.e. loose), now might be a good time to affix it better. This applies to before, during and after shooting.
2) Shooter is shooting a string of five revolver targets and the shooter is instructed to shoot them once from left to right (i.e. 1,2, 3, 4, and 5). The targets are set very close together (almost overlapping). The shooter actually hits targets in this order (1, 3, 3, 4, 5). What is the call?
Call is a Miss only. The new handbooks will caution match directors to not set up stages so a miss on one target hits another target close by and if targets are set too close together the shooter will get a Miss only and not a Procedural penalty.
3) A pump 1897 shooter has to engage two shotgun targets then move a fair distance and engage another two targets. The shooter loads one shotshell and hits the first target, loads a second shotshell and hits the second target leaving his shotgun closed on the fired round. Shooter then moves to the new location and on the way, loads two new shotshells in the 1897 magazine maintaining muzzle control. When shooter arrives at second location, shooter pumps new rounds into his chambers one at a time and hits the final two targets leaving his shotgun open and empty. What’s the call?
The rules say the shooter may not load more than two rounds at a time. This has been recently ruled by the RO Committee to be two LIVE rounds. So, the shooter can leave one fired round in his gun chamber, and load two rounds in his 1897 pump or 1887 lever action shotgun as he is moving or before his next shooting position. This will be clarified in the Jan 2009 handbook(s) release.
4) Same shooter is shooting his 1897 and it is the last gun on the stage. Shooter leaves a hull in his shotgun accidently on last shot. At what point is the shooter awarded a minor safety for the infraction?
Shooter is awarded the safety penalty for the empty hull when he lays his shotgun down on the unloading table provided it was the last gun shot
5) Shooter is shooting his shotgun and lays it down with an empty hull in the shotgun. Shooter then moves to a new location and picks up his rifle and after he levers the rifle (now with a round in the chamber and hammer cocked) but before he fires the rifle, the Range Officer informs the shooter of the empty hull in his shotgun. How can the shooter recover from this situation without incurring a penalty?
Shooter must remove the hull from his shotgun before he shoots his rifle or he gets a safety penalty. With the rifle, the shooter can open his rifle and jack out his round from the chamber, but will have to load another round from his person to hit all his rifle targets eventually. When the rifle is open the shooter can continue to hold on to the rifle while he moves back to the shotgun if he wants-but do not violate the 170 muzzle rule. Then the shooter has to go back to his correct position for shooting his rifle and at any time then can load one more in his rifle. Most shooters would do it for his last round. If the shooter cocks his revolver before removing the hull he has a much more serious issue to resolve-probably best to just take the 10 second safety penalty.
6) Shooter completes his stage, and moves to the unloading table and has checked all his guns, returned his long guns to his gun cart, comes back to the unloading table and holsters his first revolver and while holstering his second revolver drops it on the ground. What is the call?
Shooter is very lucky, he has avoided a major penalty. Under the new definition of the firing line, it is defined as from when the first gun is placed on the loading table until the last gun is picked up from the unloading table so shooters dropped gun did not occur on the firing line so no penalty. If it were any other of his guns he would have gotten the dropped gun penalty.
7) A reshoot is not a restart. What is a restart? When is a restart granted and by whom?
A RESHOOT can only be granted by the Timer Operator, Range Officer or other match official. This can be for all kinds of issues. A RESTART is granted to the shooter when requested by the SHOOTER. As long as the shooter does not abuse the privilege a restart is granted at the shooters request. This must be done before the first bullet leaves the barrel.
8) Shooter starts the stage with his long guns laying flat on a prop, like the back of buckboard. The shooter completes the stage and finds his rifle is propped up next to the side of the prop (i.e. wall of the bed of the buckboard) and is no longer flat. What is the call?
Shooter must restage his long guns safely after he shoots them. He does not necessarily have to lay them back exactly as originally staged. He must restage his long guns where the stage instructions indicate if they indicate where. This does not give the shooter leeway to drop his gun on the ground.
9) Shooter loads his guns at the loading table and forgot to lower his hammer on his rifle on an empty chamber and loads the magazine with the requisite number of rounds. As he leaves the loading table and comes to the props to stage his long guns the Range Officer notes that the hammer of the shooters rifle is cocked. What is the call?
Shooter gets a stage disqualification for coming to the line with his rifle cocked, even when on an empty chamber.
10) Shooter shows up at loading table with 5 empty pieces of brass in one revolver. What is the call?
Shooter gets a stage disqualification if the stage is not the first stage of the day. If the stage is the first stage of the day, it is a no call.
11) Shooter is shooting the stage and comes to his last gun, the shotgun and finds he forgot his shotgun ammo and his loops are empty. Did the Range Officer start the shooter in a faulted position? What is the call?
Timer Operator/Range Officer is not responsible to insure that the shooter has his shotgun rounds. A good TO/RO tries to help but it is the shooters final responsibility. In this case the shooter gets a miss for the unfired rounds. TO/RO gets 20 lashes with a wet noodle for not looking closer at the shooter before starting him.
12) Shooter is directed to put his revolvers on a horizontal prop. Shooter leans one revolver against the other to allow quicker access to it’s grip. What is the call?
Shooter will no longer be allowed to lean one gun against another. If a stage requires a revolver to be put on prop, it must be laid flat with the grip on the prop.
13) Shooter accidently drops an unfired shotgun round on the table in front of him. He finishes shooting his stage and as he walks to the unloading table, he grabs his unfired round and puts it into his shotgun belt and goes to the unloading table. What is the call?
If the shooter picks up the unfired round before he is cleared at the unloading table, he gets a safety violation penalty. Do not pick up unfired rounds on props, on the ground, where ever. Someone else will do it and bring them to the unloading table. A friend lost a category winners buckle at EOT a couple of years for doing this.
I must confess that many of these are sorta trick questions in that many involve the latest RO Committee rulings at the TG Summit at the Convention. Did you read the Convention flash report-see SASS Rules link, many answers are there. They will be spelled out in the revised handbooks to be released in Jan. I put them here to help folks understand the new handbooks.
December Questions & Answers
This month we will address several unrelated issues on various topics.
1. Where must a revolver be pointed before the shooter cocks it?
Revolver must be aimed at least 45 degrees downrange above straight down from the shooter.
2. What is the penalty for holstering a cocked revolver?
Penalty for holstering a cocked loaded revolver is a stage disqualification. Really it is a stage disqualification even if the revolver has been shot and all rounds are spent since the shooter can not allow a cocked gun to leave his hands, so if the shooter takes his hand off the empty cocked revolver in his holster it is also a stage disqualification. If the shooter holds on to the gun continuously since cocked and removes it from his holster he should be able to decock it without penalty.
3. The first violation of the 170 rule results in what kind of penalty?
The first violation of the 170 rule is a stage disqualification. If the gun is loaded and someone gets swept with the loaded gun it is match disqualification. If anyone is swept with an unloaded gun anywhere, it is a stage disqualification.
4. What is the SASS recommended target distances for pistol, rifle and shotgun?
Pistol 7 to 10 yards
Rifle 13 to 50 yards
Shotgun 8 to 16 yards
5. What should a shooter do if he hears the command “cease fire or stop”? What should folks at loading and unloading table do? If you are carrying guns to and from your gun cart, what should you do?
All shooting must stop immediately before another round is fired. Shooter’s gun must be laid down or otherwise made safe immediately. Once the problem that caused the cease fire is resolved, an all clear command is usually given by the Range Officer. If you are at the loading table or unloading table that face side berms, it is a real good idea to stop what you are doing until you can determine the issue that caused the cease fire and whether it is safe for you to continue loading or unloading. If you are at a loading table or unloading table on the firing line, stop what you are doing and put your guns in a safe position and step back from your guns. An example of why it is a good idea to stop loading or unloading is if unauthorized personnel have somehow wondered on the range downrange of your position.
6. What kind of penalty is awarded for a round shot over the berm?
This penalty is unique to each range. Some ranges are in close proximity to residential areas or other sensitive areas and a round over the berm can be extremely hazardous and these clubs many times make a round over the berm a match disqualification.. Other ranges have miles down range and give no penalty for a round over the berm.
So at Rio Salado if you put a round over the berm your match is finished for the day with a match disqualification. A round over the berm could reach a shooter on the public range setting a distant target or possibly impact someone on the high power range at the 200 yard line or more distant.
7. What is the minimum velocity of SASS revolver ammunition? How is it measured?
The SASS minimum revolver velocity is 400 fps. This is the minimum velocity for all SASS state championship matches and above, however since it can be a safety issue all shooters are asked to comply with this minimum velocity. If the ammunition is determined to be below this standard, the shooter is given a 30 second penalty for each stage shot with that ammo. To measure the velocity, a chronometer is used. If shooters do not know the velocity of their ammo, a chronograph can be set up at Rio for them to use.
8. What is the maximum velocity of SASS revolver ammunition?
The maximum velocity of SASS revolver ammo is 1000 fps and for rifle it is 1400 fps.
9. An accidental discharge by the shooter will result in what penalty for the shooter? Does where it impacts matter?
An accidental discharge that impacts the ground or a prop within 5 feet of the shooter is a match disqualification. An accidental discharge that impacts the ground or a prop at a distance from 5 to 10 feet results in a stage disqualification. Sometimes these penalties are waved or partially waved or modified via stage instructions or match briefings for some props on specific stages (eg a no shoot prop between the shooter and revolver targets).
10. Sweeping anyone with a loaded or unloaded gun will result in what penalty?
Sweeping anyone with a loaded gun results in a match disqualification. Sweeping anyone with an unloaded gun results in a stage disqualification.
11. Shooter shows up at the unloading table or after the next gun is cocked while shooting with a loaded round on the carrier (rifle or shotgun) or in the magazine tube of a gun already fired will result in what penalty?
A live round or a fired round found in a long gun magazine or on the carrier at the unloading table or on the firing line after the next gun is cocked results in a 10 second major safety violation. A live round found in the chamber of a long gun at the unloading table or after the next gun is cocked is a stage disqualification. A live round (including a inoperative primer round) in a revolver not under the hammer found at the unloading table results in a 5 second miss penalty for each round. Shooters are reminded that it is too common to find a stuck round in a rifle magazine due to rust accumulation, so unloading officers should try to see the magazine follower if possible or require the shooter to rapidly cycle the rifle several times to verify empty.
12. What should a shooter do if he hears the command “down range” and he is shooting, is at the loading table, is at the unloading table, carrying his guns to=2 0and from the loading table/unloading table? Do the placement of the loading table and unloading table effect what is done there during a down range command?
If a down range command is given, the shooter should continue shooting the stage until he is finished shooting. If the shooter is still on the firing line, he should make his guns are safe on the props or in his holsters as soon as he finishes shooting. The shooter should step back a step and not touch his guns again until he hears the all clear command. Shooters at a loading or unloading table that are in line with the firing line on shared stages within a single range shall also put their guns in a safe position on the loading table or holsters and step back from the table and not touch the guns again until the all clear command is given. In this case a flag system will normally be used to allow the shooters to also visually see when the all clear is given. If the stage is not shared and has it’s own side berms and if the loading table and unloading table face these berms the shooters at these tables can usually safely continue loading and unloading. Shooters walking to and from their carts with empty guns should not place their guns on the loading tables or unloading tables if the tables are in line with the firing line, until the all clear command is given as the shooter could be sweeping posse members working down range with his guns while handling them. The Range Officer should really be checking the most recent shooter to determine that he has carried his fired guns, walked to the unloading table, and safely put his guns on the unloading table if time allows before he issues a down range command or raises a down range flag.
13. If you are on a common firing line with multiple stages and no berms in between stages, what do the colored flags sometimes used mean?
This is somewhat covered above but usually they mean there is either a down range situation (yellow flag) or a cease fire (red flag). Sometimes a single red flag is used for both situations.
14. What is an expeditor and how and where is one used?
At large matches, to expedite shooting and keep posses on schedule, after the shooter has loaded his guns and is the next shooter to move to the line, instead he moves to an intermediate point called the expeditor station (usually a low table to rest the butts of the shooters long guns on) and an expeditor is there to answer shooter questions and whether he understands the course of fire, check his equipment, etc. The expeditor or the Range Officer can send the shooter to the firing line from this position.
15. If an external gun modification is not specifically addressed in the SASS handbooks, can it be used?
No.
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November Questions & Answers
This month we will take a closer look at the Spotters duties, a little on hits and misses, etc. We will start by reminding everyone what is in the RO I Handbook on responsibilities and rules associated with spotters which I have copied here:
A) Must never spot for a family member.
B) Have the responsibility to count shots and misses and to verify the targets were engaged in the correct order for the required number of shots. Spotters will assist the Timer Operator by watching for violations when the competitor retrieves staged firearms and draws revolvers since it is impossible for the Timer Operator to have an unobstructed view of both sides of the competitor’s body. Spotters are obligated to stop
a shooter from attempting an unsafe action if the Timer Operator is not in position to see it or react quickly enough.
C) Should always be in position to see all the targets in the course of fire. At least one spotter should be positioned on either side of the competitor.
D) Determine misses by both visual and audible means, if possible.
E) Always give the shooter the benefit of any doubt.
F) There should always be three Spotters—the majority (two out of three) breaks the tie.
As mentioned before, bandanas or batons are a good idea.
G) Remember, the Timer Operator is not relied upon to count shots and misses. His main function is to assist the competitor through the course of fire, and his memory can easily be altered if something out of the ordinary happens or if he becomes occupied coaching a newer shooter through a stage.
H) It is up to the Timer Operator to verify at least two of the three Spotters agree on misses.
Another thing all spotters need to remember is that the benefit of the doubt goes to the shooter. Remember these things:
Benefit of the doubt goes to the shooter
A hit is a hit
If you think it is a hit it is a hit
If you think it is a miss it is a hit
If you did not see it miss, it is a hit
If you KNOW it is amiss it is a miss
Here are the November questions for you to consider for a while:
1. The spotters must have been looking at different shooters as spotter #1 has one miss, spotter #2 has two misses and spotter #3 has three misses. What is the penalty given the shooter?
In this case two shooters (the majority) saw two misses and the shooter gets two misses. A lot of folks want to use the idea that the benefit of the doubt goes to the shooter and call for only one miss, but that is not correct.
2. The Timer Operator informs the spotters at the completion of shooting that he saw an edge hit but the spotters called it a miss. Can spotters change their call based on this new information? Are spotters required to change their call?
The spotters can change their call if they had some doubt on the miss they had called or believe that the Timer Operator was correct. Spotters are not required to change their call. Many times the Timer Operator is in the absolute best position to see an edge hit because he is looking directly behind the shooter and can see dirt fly not on the line of the shot easiest. Remember the benefit of the doubt goes to the shooter. In doubt, check the edge of the target to see the edge hit in the paint. Spotters are not required to change their call but should reconsider their call.
3. Can spotters confer among themselves on a hit or miss call before announcing their decision?
Spotters can confer among themselves when something happens that is unusual. For normal shooting, each spotter should identify what he alone saw for hits and misses. Many spotters use their fingers to count misses, I personally try never to look at another shooters hands before I identify my misses. If one spotter saw an edge hit, he can confer with others including other spotters and the RO/TO on an edge hit call versus a miss. If one spotter believed an incorrect sequence was shot he can confer with the RO/TO and other spotters on getting the correct call.
4. Can spotters hit or miss result be overturned by the TO or the Posse Marshall?
I would say it is never normal for a RO or Posse Marshall to over turn a call of hits or mises by the spotters. I have seen one or two situations where the RO/TO had good cause to overturn a call of hit and misses in all my years of cowboy shooting. If the RO/TO does not believe his spotters are doing the correct job he should replace them immediately. If the TO/RO does not agree with the spotters calls he can ask each spotter to identify which targets were missed with each gun. If a spotter can not recall this correctly it may be time to replace the spotter.
5. If only one spotter sees a non hit or miss penalty (a P or a safety penalty for example), can a penalty be awarded the shooter?
Yes it the answer. There is no requirement for a more than one spotter to see a safety or procedural penalty. There is no requirement that any spotter saw the penalty for that matter. A penalty can be awarded the shooter if only the RO/TO saw the safety or procedural penalty. What is important is that the correct call is made and issued by the RO/TO. Many times the RO/TO is in the best position to see when the shooter shot from the wrong location, displayed unsafe gun handling, and in some cases see the shooter shoot the wrong targets. I have seen many RO/TOs will not award a penalty on procedurals unless at least one spotter saw the penalty but that is not required. Getting the right call is the intent. Non stage officials can not award penalties or insist that they be awarded.
6. Who makes final decisions on non hit or miss penalties?
In the end it is the RO/TO that is responsible to levy all non hit/miss penalties and he can use all the help he can get and use. Spotters are normally the final authority on hits and misses.
7. Is a target stand hit a miss or a hit?
A target stand that is impacted is a miss unless the bullets also hit the correct target in the correct sequence.
8. If a shooter fails to fire the correct number of rounds with his revolvers and leaves one target not engaged, what is the call?
It is a miss only and not also a procedural penalty.
9. Should the spotters be looking at the shooter (for example his feet or his guns ) between shooting strings?
Spotters need to be aware of the targets and the shooter to determine if he or she was shooting at the correct location, did not violate the one step basketball traveling rule (once a gun is cocked the shooter can only move one foot), his guns were not breaking the 170 as he handles his guns, was shooting the right target sequences, etc.
10. Spotting sometime can be like a bad hair day, what should you do if you as a spotter find your mind wandering or not in agreement with other spotters too many times?
Go do another posse job, it happens to all of us. Sometimes fatigue, inadequate water, to hot, too cold, illness, injury, etc. can cause a spotter to not be on his or her game. Just go do another job or sit out for a while.
11. Do you have to hear a hit?
You do not have to hear a hit, in fact some targets are built or set up so that some bullets make very little noise. Get into the habit to LOOK for misses.
12. How can you see a miss?
Look for dirt kicking up behind the target. Look for lack of dirt kicking up in front of targets (those tilted down).
13. How to you see and recognize an edge hit?
Edge hits are usually seen by a dirt impact that is not on the line of sight the shooter was aiming. Most edge hits go off at odd angles to left, right, bottom and top. Bottom edge hits are the hardest to see. If the targets have been painted recently, many times the paint chip in the edge can be seen.
14. Spotters do not see a sequence P penalty by the shooter but the TO/RO saw it, Call?
Answered already, but a TO/RO can make the call with no spotters seeing a P or S penalty.
15. Round hits ground or wrong target before hitting correct target, call?
It is a hit if the bullet finally hits the correct target in the proper sequence. Anything the bullet hits before finally hitting the correct target doesn’t count whether it is another target, the ground, target stands, props, etc.
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October questions & answers
For October we will be getting into issues that have been discussed recently by the TGs on leather, holsters, the 170 rule in drawing your revolver and reholstering, cross draws, canted forward and rearward holsters, position of gun belts and shotgun belts, etc. If you have specific questions or issues, send me an email and I will include them. TG Gold Canyon Kid mickeyboat@aol.com
Although our leather has a lot of specific rules associated with it, new shooters are given a lot of latitude for a time period until they get legal gear. If the shooters gear is considered safe to use, he or she can probably use it for a couple of monthly matches or so until he finds or borrows legal gear. I saw one shooter that had some really cheap holsters that fastened to his belt such that if he moved improperly his holsters actually flipped upside down. The new shooter was not allowed to continue shooting until this was remedied which it easily was in the middle of his first match.
1. Shooter has straight hang or drop holsters and when he is putting his revolvers back into the holster he tilts the barrel a little (maybe 5 degrees) behind him. Call?
1. No Call. With straight drop holsters, shooters are given a little latitude in getting their revolvers back into their holsters. Be careful though as not all holsters qualify for this treatment. See question 2 for an example of where this might not apply. I would use a rule of thumb that if a straight drop holster shooter kept his barrel pointing within a yard of his feet while drawing or holstering he would probably pass muster, but I have not seen a hard and fast rule. In a similar fashion, double shotgun shooters are given a little latitude in staging and retrieving their doubles from vertical staging props.
2. Shooter has drop holsters that have the TOP canted forward a few degrees (say 5 degrees for argument) and when he is putting his revolver back into the holster he tilts the barrel a little behind him (say 5 degrees for argument) to get the revolver into his holsters. Call? Lets say the shooter gets the gun into the holster pointing the barrel forward a little but then rotates the tip of the barrel reward to finish the job. Call?
2. DQ. In this case the shooter could easily be liable for a DQ. The straight drop holster latitude does not apply to a holster that is tilted forward at the top. This would depend on how far forward the top tilts and the RO/Posse Marshall. Nothing in the rules prohibit such a holster configuration, but if the shooter does in fact point his revolver back behind him with his barrel out of the holster when drawing or reholstering, he could get a DQ. Now if the shooter gets the tip of his revolver barrel into the top of the holster and then tilts it a little reward, it would be a no call as a revolver is normally considered safe as far as sweeping the posse when the end of the barrel gets inside the holster. If you are considering getting a holster that tilts forward at the top, you could be monitored in a similar fashion to those having cross draw holsters.
3. Shooter is putting his cross draw gun away and a posse member which was not the RO or the spotters says the shooter broke the 170 and insists the shooter be given a penalty. Neither the RO or any of the spotters saw any issue but clearly say they did not look carefully at the revolver being put back into the holster. Call?
3. No Call. Cross draw holster users have to be careful not to sweep anyone or break the 170 rule when drawing their revolver or reholstering. The officials on the stage Do have to see an infraction before the shooter gets a penalty, which would be a DQ. A posse member can not penalize the shooter and shoul d not be allowed to try to get the shooter penalized. If one or more of the officials (spotters, RO/TO) sees the infraction, the shooter can be penalized by the RO/TO which is the official that levies these type penalties. The posse member can however tell the RO/Posse Marshall what he saw and to encourage the posse officials to be observant the next time the shooter comes to the line. Hopefully the shooter would also get “help” from the RO between stages. The shooter does not have to move his or her feet to make sure he does not sweep someone using his cross draw but does have to make sure his body moves as necessary not to break the 170 rule.
4. Shooter has a really big belly and his shotgun belt leather fits the contour of his belly but as a result of his rounded belly his shotgun rounds stick out many degrees from his belly. Call?
4. No call. Shotgun loops have to fit the contour of the body but not the shells if they naturally tilt out because of the contour of the shooters belly. A good belt allows the leather to be in contact with the shooter at top and bottom.
5. Duelist shooter has a cross draw holster and when he is putting his first revolver away he misses the holster but does not break the 170 but already has drawn his second revolver from his holster. Call?
5. No call. The rule about not having two revolvers out at once except for gunfighters applies to loaded guns so in this case the duelist shooter is not penalized unless he has two loaded guns out at once. The gun shot empty is considered in his holster when the barrel enters the top of the holster.
6. Unloading table is not exactly perpendicular to the firing line, maybe only 75 degrees tilting out at the rear of the table facing a side berm. Cross draw shooter at the unloading table pulls his cross draw pistol by doing his twist to make sure he keeps the revolver barrel clearly forward of the closest edge of the unloading table in front of him. In the process of doing what he believed to be the right twist, the shooter still sweeps a spotter that was standing far over on the side to see around large stage props. Call?
6. This is not a safe shooting stage setup. I did see this exact situation at a recent major shoot. I was at the loading table when a shooter came to20the unloading table and started to draw his cross draw revolver and I stopped him. Just in front of the end of the loading table (firing line end) was a spotter that was way over on the side in order to see around large props to properly look for hits and misses. If you see such a situation, call it to match officials attention immediately. If the shooter was in fact sweeping the spotter and it was witnessed by a posse official, he could have been given a DQ. Let’s hope this never happens.
7. Shooter wears his shotgun belt at his waist and his holster belt around the middle of his hips allowing a large gap between the two belts. Call?
7. No Call. The only requirement is that the shotgun belt is to be worn so that the ammo is at or below the belly button. There currently is no requirement on how low a shooter can wear his holster belt.
8. Shooter has a shotgun slide he carries on his belt which holds several rounds. The shotgun slide is made so that the rear of the leather slide completely hugs the shooters body (top, bottom and sides) while the outside leather of the slide with the loops tilt away from his belt allowing his shells to slant outward a few degrees from his body (in fact it holds the rounds at this angle). These were common slides a few years ago before belts became so popular. Call?
8. This would not be an allowable way to carry shotgun shells. Although this type shotgun slide was very popular and a lot of vendors sold them, the way they tilt the loops out from the body makes them illegal. Be careful when buying leather, as these are not legal and are still being sold.
9. Shooter has an extra small slide that holds two extra shotgun rounds (leather with a metal clip on the rear) for those stages maybe needing more rounds than will fit his shotgun belt or for missed shots. Shooter clips the leather 2 round clip to his shirt under his neck. Call?
9. No call. The shooter still carries the two extra rounds on his body and was not wearing a bandoleer which has special requirements.
10. Shooter has his shotgun slide built into his holster belt and wears the combined belt above his belly button. Call?
10. Since a shotgun belt must be worn such that the shotgun ammo is positioned at or below his belly button and this type arrangement is really just another way to carry his shotgun rounds, it should be worn at his b elly button or below. I have only seen this once and that was with a shooter that was using a very long drop set of holsters with a tie down and had his belt up darn high. I called this an illegal way to wear his holsters. An odly positioned belly button might be a case to be studied.
11. Shooter finishes his revolver sequence and is attempting to put his revolver into his holster as he turns and starts moving toward his rifle position parallel to the firing line. The tip of the barrel clearly is in the holster but the rest of the gun is clearly not in the holster and the shooter is juggling the gun around as he moves. If the gun is the on the side away from the firing line (posse side where everyone can see it) what is the call? If the gun is on the firing line side as he moves what is the call?
11. This is an area that all shooters must understand. The 170 rule is really a fat cone that is directly in front of the shooter’s middle perpendicular to the firing line no matter the direction the shooter is faced at that point. This means any gun pointing higher than 85 degrees, lower than 85 degrees, left more than 85 degrees and right more than 85 degrees is not legal and the shooter can get awarded a DQ. A gun straight up or down breaks this 170 rule and for that matter shooters must be carefull when carrying long guns between the loading table and the unloading table to tilt their long guns slightly down range no matter how they are moving in order to avoid problems.
It does not matter the direction the shooter’s body is faced while moving, as these cone directions remain constant. For example if the shooter was actually turned toward the posse with his back down range, the 170 is in that case behind the shooter pointing down range. So for some start positions where the shooter has to turn 180 degrees before he shoots he has to very careful not to break the 170 rule. For a shooter moving left, the c one is on his right side. For a shooter moving right the cone is on his left side pointing down range. A shooter can have his revolver out while moving but must not break this cone or be eligible for a DQ. Now if the shooter has the tip of his barrel started into the holster his gun is considered safe and the 170 rule no longer applies. The shooter can move while he finishes holstering his revolver under this circumstance. It does not matter which side of the shooter this occurs on (uprange or downrange)
12. Shooter has a cross draw holster that can be rotated a little on his belt. As the shooter walks around the match the holster is clearly legal and within the 30 degree rule. Shooter loads up his pistols at the loading table, moves to the firing line and then while getting ready to shoot moves his cross draw holster when it is hard to see and it no longer meets the maximum 30 degree rule. As the shooter puts his gun back into his cross draw holster the holster rotates back to the legal 30 degree position. Call?
12. The shooter can wear a legal holster all day and if he or she puts it in an illegal position (breaking the 30 degree rule) while he is shooting he or she has performed an illegal act and will be penalized.
13. Shooter has a cross draw holster located exactly in the middle of his tummy. His drop holster is on his side well over the two fist separation distance. Call?
13. A cross draw holster and in fact any set of holsters must be worn on either side of the belly button with at least two fists between them. A middle of the belly or crotch holster is not legal.
14. Shooter is having difficulty getting his revolver into his holster and needs to move to his next shooting positon. Shooter keeps facing down range and rapidly sides steps to get to his next shooting position while still trying to get the barrel into the top of his straight drop holster.
14. No call. This is a good way to move and make sure you do not break the 170 rule if you are having difficulty getting the gun into your holster if you have straight drop holsters, see 1 above. If you are a new shooter, it is a good idea to not move while drawing or reholstering until you feel secure in doing so, just do not break the 170 rule or your shooting can be done for the day.
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September questions & answers
I used some of your questions, made them a little more general, and added some more questions to attempt to make this a learning experience for all. A couple of you asked some hard questions and I am attempting to answer them with some help, won't guarantee the answers 100% but think they are correct, some get into some gray areas:
Knockdown targets are seeing more use and require the spotters to understand how they are sometimes scored differently than stationary targets. These questions present some of the unique issues that might crop. These are real scenarios and have been used at major matches of recent.
1. For a shotgun sequence of 4 targets with the instructions to shoot the outside targets and then the inside targets (i.e. one way to shoot it would be: S1, S4, S2, S3). Shotgun shooter shoots S1-it falls, shoots S2 - hits it accidently but it doesn't fall, then after everyone is yelling at him, shoots S4-it falls, then shoots S2-it falls, then finally S3-it falls. What is the call?
1. Shotgun knock downs are normally handled differently than rifle and pistol knockdowns as you will see later. Most times these days you will see the stage description to show "4+" or "4 plus" shotgun rounds or maybe "Comstock rule". These all mean the same in that you are not awarded a miss until you have completed the shotgun shooting sequence and a target is still standing. If you shoot at a target and it doesn't fall, no matter what you might hit (i.e. dirt, another target (pistol or rifle), wrong shotgun target if does not fall, etc.), the shot does not count and you can shoot again without a penalty. In this case the shooter was very lucky as he initially shot #2 target out of order but since it did not fall, he was able to go on and complete the sequence in the correct order with no penalty. If #2 fell when first shot the shooter would have been awarded a P, but since it did not fall, it had not been actually engaged, so No Call.
In many cases shotgun targets are identified to be shot in a specific order in which case the shooter can continue shooting in any sequence until all targets are down or the shooter is out of ammo.
In cases where a specific shotgun sequence is given and a target does not fall, the shooter needs to understand what the stage description says about another shot on that target and whether it needs to be made at that time or when all other targets are shot down or at any time.
2. Buckaroo shooting. Four knockdown shotgun targets, no order. Buckaroo shoots each knockdown in sequence but target 2 does not fall, rest fall down with first shot. Buckaroo continues shooting at target 2 until he runs out of ammo. What is the call?
2. Buckaroos do not have to knock down shotgun targets to avoid a miss, only to hit the target. The call is that the Timer Operator should have stopped the Buckaroo after he or she hit all of the shotgun targets and to either go to the unloading table or shoot another gun as required by the stage. No Call.
3. Stage instructions call for pistol knockdown targets P1 through P5 to be shot alternating between the knockdown and P6 a stationary target starting with P1. Shooter shoots P1-it falls, P6, P2-hit, it does not fall, P6, P3-it falls, P6, P4-it falls, P6, P5-it falls and finally P6. What is the call?
3. Pistol and rifle knockdowns are handled somewhat differently than shotgun knock downs and are very dependent on what the stage descriptions have to say about how they are to be handled. Read and understand the stage instructions carefully and ask questions if you do not understand. Here are some of the ways they might be handled by specific stage instructions:
a. A simple pistol or rifle knockdown which must fall to score a hit, with no additional shots. If the target does not fall it is a miss. Note that nomally the shooter is given only a miss even tho the shot might hit another target close to the shooters intentended target. Many times knockdowns are smaller and the shooter is given the break and the assumption is that he was shooting the proper knockdown target.
b. A round that his the target is declared a hit and a bonus is awarded if the target falls (like a 1 or 2 second bonus)-getting more popular at many matches.
c. Shooter is given multiple opportunities to hit the knockdown target so that if he misses it the first time with his rifle or pistol he gets a second chance to avoid a penalty. An example is a three target pistol array with the middle target being a knockdown and the shooter is to engage the three targets in a Nevada sweep, 1,2,3,2,1. In this case the #2 target is shot twice, and if it does not fall the first time the shooter could shoot higher or whatever to knock it down the next time. In this case the shooter is normally required to at least hit the target the first time to avoid a miss but not always, read and understand the stage instructions.
d. Shooter is given the opportunity to come back at some time in the stage and use his shotgun to knock down any pistol or rifle knockdown targets that did not fall initially. Only if the shotgun does not take it down at the completion of the stage would it be considered a miss. Sometimes the shooter is required to at least hit the pistol or rifle in his first attempt or he gets a miss penalty anyway and the follow up shotgun round would not remove the miss only add to the shooters time.
e. In very rare circumstances the shooter could be allowed by the stage instructions to do a reload to knock down a target that did not fall. This would be very rare. Normally a shooter can only do a pistol reload without it being in the stage instructions to avoid a multiple penalty situation, example: the shooter cocks his pistol in the wrong location. He has to shoot it (without moving more than one foot and gets a P for shooting in the wrong sequence/order/location) or he gets a DQ (he can not decock the pistol on a live round or he gets a DQ). Since he fired this first shot at the berm or other, later he could be short a round and would get a miss (in addition to the P) for the target not hit. In this case he could reload on the clock to avoid the miss but still gets the P. A rifle can be reloaded to make up a live round levered from his rifle for example or for a rifle with the hammer cocked over a live round in the wrong location, similar situation as the pistol to save the second penalty (but the shooter could only move with the rifle lever open with a spent hull on the carrier).
f. Another case that comes up is for a set of plate racks on a common stand. Sometimes when you are shooting at one target more than one target falls. In that case the shooter normally has to continue shooting the targets in sequence and to shoot the air when the target that fell accidently originally stood in the proper sequence. This could be modified by the stage instructions. Be very careful here especially if you are alternating between falling plates and a fixed target and when a target falls accidently the shooter can get out of sequence easily and be awarded a P.
Now back to the question, under normal circumstances unless the stage instructions specificall call for something else the shooter is awarded a Miss for the target that did not fall.
4. Stage instructions call for pistol knockdown targets P1 through P5 to be shot alternating between the knockdown and P6 a stationary target starting with P1. Shooter shoots P1-it falls, P6, P2-hit, it does not fall, P6, P2-it falls, P6, P3-it falls, P4-it falls, P6, P5-it falls. What is the call?
4. Unless the shooter was given specific stage instructions different than normal, the shooter must continue to shoot pistol and rifle knockdowns in the exact sequence as stated in the stage instructions. If the shooter misses the target or the target does not fall the shooter must go on with the rest of the sequence. In this case the shooter shot P2 twice and did not shoot P6 as the last target so the shooter is awarded a P. If you do not understand how to handle misses with a specific stage having pistol or rifle knockdowns, ask before the shooting starts.
5. Stage instructions call for pistol knockdown targets P1 through P5 to be shot alternating between the knockdown and P6 a stationary target starting with P1. Shooter shoots P1-it falls, P6, P2-hit, it does not fall, Shooter hits P2 again it falls, P6, P3-it falls, P6, P4-it falls, P6, P5-it falls and finally shooter reloads one round in his pistol and hits P6. What is the call?
5. Under normal circumstances the shooter would be given a P for reloading his pistol assuming the stage instructions did not specifically allow it. See 3. for other ways the stage instructions might have handled this differently.
6. Stage instructions call for pistol knockdown targets P1 through P5 to be shot alternating between the knockdown and P6 a stationary target starting with P1. Shooter shoots P1-it falls, P6, P2-hit, it does not fall, P6, P3-it falls, P6, P4-it falls, P6, P5-it falls, P6, shooter then reloads one round in his pistol and shoots P2 and it falls. What is the call?
6. This is not really differently than 5. the shooter earns a P, he probably had 2 Ps one for the reload and another for shooting P2 down out of order, but you can only get one P per stage. By now some of you are saying there is something wrong with the knockdown calibration on P2. But it was in perfect calibration.
7. How do the answers to questions 3 through 6 change if the shooter clearly missed P2 when it did not fall? Be careful, this is a trick question.
7. If the shooter was shooting a pistol string and he misses the knockdown target it is normally a Miss unless the stage instructions clearly say something differently. As a result 3. through 6. answers would not change whether the target was missed, or hit and did not fall except for the alternative ways to handle knockdown pistol targets as identified in the options in 3a. through 3f. for some other ways this might be handled. It is extremely important for the shooter to clearly understand how he should handle pistol and or rifle knockdown misses or hits that do not fall before he shoots, ask if you do not understand before you shoot.
8. How do the answers to questions 3 through 6 change if the shooter clearly hit a rifle target when P2 did not fall?
8. If the rifle target hit was in roughly the same line of flight as the pistol target when he missed P2, the shooter is only awarded a miss and not a P. The shooter is given the benefit of the doubt and gets a miss only. Match directors are asked to avoid these kind of situations where a miss can can cause the shooter to accidently hit another kind of target.
9. Shotgun shooter shoots at 4 knockdown targets. Three fall and one falls all the way down and then pops back up. What is the call?
9. If a shotgun target falls down completely and then pops up it is normally called a Hit. Some clubs have local rules on their style targets which could change this.
10. Shotgun shooter shoots at 4 knockdown targets. Three fall and one only falls part way down and stays there. What is the call?
10. If a shotgun target only goes down part way the shooter would normally be required to shoot it again, as a target must fall competely to be scored a hit unless the target is considered broken.
Send any questions to these answers to Gold Canyon Kid at
mickeyboat@aol.com
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August questions:
It is important for all shooters to understand if Gunfighter shooters are shooting the correct way (as most folks will get involved spotting) so these questions are for everyone to understand. What are the penalties if any for these actions:
Stage instructions for all shooters is to dump 5 rounds from first pistol on left pistol target and 5 rounds from second pistol on right pistol target.
1. First gunfighter comes to line pulls both pistols and dumps all five rounds from his left pistol on the left target then takes his right pistol and dumps five rounds on the right pistol target.
No call, all bullets hit targets in correct sequence, it made no difference what revolver they were shot with by the GUNFIGHTER.
2. Second gunfighter comes to line pulls both pistols and alternates rounds from each pistol until he gets five hits on left pistol target then switches over and dumps five rounds alternating pistols on right hand target.
No call, all bullets hit targets in correct sequence, it made no difference what revolver they were shot with by the GUNFIGHTER.
3. Third gunfighter comes to line and pulls both pistols and alternates shots from each pistol putting a round on each target as he alternates guns and targets, in the end getting 5 rounds on each target.
P - Shooter did not hit targets in correct sequence. Remember a gunfighter must shoot targets in same sequence as everyone else.
4. Fourth gunfighter comes to the line and has a brain fade and dumps all rounds from both pistols on the left target.
P - Shooter did not hit targets in correct sequence. Remember a gunfighter must shoot targets in same sequence as everyone else.
5. Fifth gunfighter comes to the line and while shooting, slips off the hammer (short strokes it) with his thumb on one pistol and in the end only manages to get 9 rounds on the two targets, 5 on one and 4 on the other. Gunfighter keeps cocking his pistol that only fires 4 rounds and after going around the cylinder a couple of times finally gives up and holsters both pistols.
At minimum a miss (and no further penalties, i.e. Ps, safety, spirit of game, etc.), BUT if shooter shows up at unloading table with his unfired round under the hammer he will be awarded a stage DQ. If a shooter is ever in doubt where the hammer might be with respect to the unfired round (after going around a couple of times), the shooter should hand off the revolver to the TO/RO, do not holster it to avoid a significant penalty.
Contact Gold Canyon Kid for the answers... Or wait towards the end of the month for me to post the them...
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July questions:
1. Shooter is shooting a long range target with his rifle and accidentally has a long range AD (over 15 yards from him) and the bullet strikes the ground then kicks up and hits the correct rifle target. Hit or Miss?
1. Hit, it doesn't matter the route the bullet takes if it finally hits the correct target, it is a hit.
2, Shooter is shooting his pistol at a pistol target that is located just above a shotgun target. Shooter misses pistol target low, round hits shotgun target and kicks up into the correct pistol target. Hit or Miss?
2. Hit, it doesn't matter the route the bullet takes if it finally hits the correct target, it is a hit.
3. Shooter is shooting his rifle at rifle target and misses low hitting the target stand right below the target. Hit or Miss?
3. Miss, the shooter did not hit the target, he hit the stand which is not the target.
4. Shooter is shooting his pistol at pistol target that is located just above shotgun target. Shooter misses pistol target low, round hits shotgun target and bullet kicks up into the INcorrect pistol target. Miss or Procedural?
4. Procedural, shooter hit the correct type of target but in the wrong order. Whether it hit the shotgun target first is not a factor in this case since it hit the pistol targets but not in the right order. See RO I Handbook flow chart.
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